Reigniting Indigenous Science: Maceo Carrillo Martinet

Restoration ecologist and author Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet joins us to talk about his new book Healing the Land Teaches Us Who We Are: How Indigenous Cultural Resistance Can Restore the Earth, Recover Community, and Create Sustainable Futures. Grounded in over two decades of community-based restoration work across New Mexico, Maceo makes the case that the climate solutions we're searching for already exist and are already being practiced by communities around the world. The book is structured around the four elements — water, earth, fire, and air — treating each not as a category but as a relative with something to say. We move through the memory of ancient Pueblo dry-land farming still visible on La Bajada Mesa, the racism embedded in the history of American fire suppression, and the idea that culture and science were never actually separate to begin with. A conversation about returning to first principles, in a time when the polycrisis makes that return feel urgent.

Guest

Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet is an award-winning restoration ecologist who has spent over 20 years co-creating community-based restoration and education projects across New Mexico and beyond. Since 2008, he has worked with the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Program, assisting private landowners, tribes, cities, and counties. He holds a PhD in biology from the University of New Mexico with a focus on ecology, freshwater sciences, and environmental education. He teaches a hands-on course at UNM on watershed and community restoration.

Topics

• 00:00 — Introduction
• 00:02 — The Rio Grande community tree planting during COVID
• 00:06 — Wounds as portals: what the pandemic revealed
• 00:09 — La Bajada Mesa & ancient Pueblo dry-land farming
• 00:14 — Redefining Indigenous science as communal science
• 00:20 — The four-element framework of the book
• 00:23 — Elements as relatives, not categories
• 00:26 — Wildfires, racism & the history of fire suppression
• 00:33 — The Oakland Museum's "Good Fire" exhibit
• 00:37 — Fire as community energy, fire inside us
• 00:42 — The metacrisis & the land as teacher
• 00:47 — Closing: no silver bullets, only relationship

Resources & Links

Dr. Maceo Carrillo Martinet

• Website: maceocm.com
• Healing the Land Teaches Us Who We Are: How Indigenous Cultural Resistance Can Restore the Earth, Recover Community, and Create Sustainable Futures — North Atlantic Books, June 2026
• Publisher page & book description at Penguin Random House
• Read an excerpt

Referenced in the conversation

• Jessica Hernandez — Fresh Banana Leaves
• Dr. Lyla June Johnston — Architects of Abundance dissertation 
• Stephen Pyne — fire historian, ASU
• Arundhati Roy — "The pandemic is a portal"
• Bioneers Conference

Contact SAND

• podcast@scienceandnonduality.com
• Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member